1. Hello my friend, pleasure to have you on Rotten Pages ´zine. How are you doing today? Let us set the scene first. Where do we find you right now? Please describe your surroundings.
N.N. Libra: Thank you, we are doing very well. It's a pleasure to give you an interview. We are here in Chr.'s small home studio. This is the place where we spent many hours working on composing, mixing and mastering before the release of our album “Nachtmeerfahrten”.
Chr.: Clichéd as it might appear, the interior features black curtains, animal skulls with horns, large paintings with demonic entities, plates with occult symbols and items like that to generate an appropriate setting and backdrop.
2. Would we start with the origin of the band, both in terms of ideologically and musically, your aims in shaping the direction of Waldruine?
Chr.: Waldruine was deliberately founded as a black metal band. This decision established a clear framework in terms of musical style, sound, aesthetics, and lyrical themes.
In the black metal genre, it’s — at least in our opinion — all about atmosphere. The mood we wish to invoke is very important. Our focus is on conjuring the forces of darkness.
N.N. Libra: During the creation of the album, it was very important to us that each song would convey the right atmosphere. We have really put a strong focus on that. We are therefore delighted that we have already received a lot of positive feedback praising the atmosphere of “Nachtmeerfahrten”.
3. Before becoming a musician, were you self taught taking private music lessons at a young age or did you fully learn and adapt on your own from there?
N.N. Libra: I took lessons to learn to play the guitar quickly and effectively. And even now I still have a teacher to keep improving my skills. I believe that it is not only important but also a lot of fun to keep developing.
Chr.: Well, as a school kid, I was taught to play the recorder (just to clarify: not the technical device for recording sound, but the small wooden flute). I also participated in the school choir and learned to read music. This was quite common for schoolchildren back then.
However, I haven't had any formal training on the bass guitar. My musical skills developed—so to speak—on the fly, as I tackled the challenges of playing in a band, and they continue to evolve to this day.
4. How is living in Lower Saxony? What’s the metal scene like where you are? Do you think where you are has much of an impact on your music?
N.N. Libra: Lower Saxony is the fourth largest state in Germany. It is located relatively far to the north of the country. The landscape is very varied. In the north we have the sea and in the south we have a small mountain range called Harz, where there is a lot of forest.
I do think that our environment here has shaped us. We see ourselves more as northern Europeans. The Scandinavian countries such as Denmark, Sweden and Norway are not that far away. The dark and cold atmosphere in the fall and winter in particular has certainly a big influence on us and our music.
Chr.: Yes, I completely agree that our environment has an impact on our minds and thus on our music.
Concerning the current metal scene in Lower Saxony, I can not say much, because I am actually not involved in that.
5. You´re basically a duo, who first came up with the idea to form Waldruine, and how did you both meet! Oh, and who came up with the name of course!
N.N. Libra: The name “Waldruine” was actually my idea. We'd had a longer list of different ideas for a band name for a while, but somehow we could never really settle on one. Somehow none of them really appealed to us. The name “Waldruine” just popped into my head at some point. I suggested it to the other two and they both liked it straight away, which is why we were actually able to decide on it very quickly.
“Waldruine” is the combination of the two words forest and ruin. It can therefore be interpreted ambiguously. For example, as an actual ruin in the forest, where nobody actually knows exactly what happened there in the past. Or as the forest, which in many places is now just a ruin due to climatic changes and human influence, for example.
Basically, however, we also like the fact that everyone can interpret the name in their own way.
Chr.: How did we meet? Back then, our drummer and I felt the need to find a new guitarist. I reached out to N.N. Libra through the internet, and eventually, the two of us met to see if we could work together. Plain and simple. I'm very glad it turned into such a fruitful collaboration.
N.N. Libra: Yes, it was probably more of a coincidence that we met. I wasn't specifically looking for a band to play in. But I wasn't fundamentally averse to the idea, which is why we met up and I was able to listen to the material that already existed. And I really liked it! Actually, there was already another guitarist at this point. But he left the band unannounced on the day of our first meeting for other reasons. So there were only ever three of us.
6. Although initial rehearsal sessions took place since late summer 2019, the band was officially established on Winter Solstice 2021. How has your sound evolved over these years, and what has kept you inspired to continue creating music?
Chr.: Yes, the founding of Waldruine has a longer history that goes back to 2019, with some shifts in involvement and phases of varying commitment. Waldruine was officially founded at the winter solstice in 2021 by N.N. Libra (guitar), V. Morghulis (drums), and myself (bass, vocals). From that point, we had a clearly defined goal: to release a complete album, partially drawing on ideas we had already developed by then. We worked steadily toward this goal. At that stage, we already had fairly concrete ideas of the songs (as a target vision), so much was already determined. These songs were then gradually completed.
In fact, our sound continued to evolve: we added certain tones that we hadn't initially planned, to intensify the atmosphere. Additionally, we made the vocals more varied than originally intended.
N.N. Libra: I think I almost drove him crazy when it came to vocals, haha.
For me, singing for “Nachtmeerfahrten” shouldn't just be singing. I always imagined that the vocals should be an important part of giving the individual songs their very own atmosphere. It took a while, but personally I'm really happy with the vocals on the album.
7. Your first studio offering “Nachtmeerfahrten” was released couple months ago and is the debut record. How the songwriting process all started?
Chr.: As already mentioned, we have been working diligently on the compositions since the band's founding at the latest. In the process, we also incorporated some musical ideas that had already been developed by that point. We then recorded a demo version of the “Nachtmeerfahrten” material before moving on to the final album production. The purpose of this demo was mainly to serve as a working foundation. Based on this, we identified improvements, which were then incorporated into the final recordings.
8. Are there any kind of particular points of inspiration for these 9 tracks that you would like to discuss?
Chr.: The album is based on an occult lyrical concept and is designed as a Gesamtkunstwerk (a "total work of art"), which is quite typical for the black metal genre. This means the album is a release where sound, lyrics, and visual elements merge to create a cohesive atmosphere. The album is titled “Nachtmeerfahrten” (night sea journeys)—an inner journey associated with the unconscious. This term describes the confrontation with the dark, unknown, and threatening aspects of the self, much like a perilous journey over the sea at night, where the traveler loses orientation and must find their way through the darkness. This concept was also used by the well-known psychologist C.G. Jung. From a Jungian perspective, the "night sea journey" is often connected to the process of individuation—the psychological development toward a complete, integrated self. This dark phase is essential to ultimately achieving enlightenment and self-realization. The album booklet features a diagram showing the Tree of Wyrd from Norse tradition (somewhat the Nordic equivalent to the Tree of Sephiroth and the Tree of Qliphoth alike, from the Qabalistic tradition), serving as a symbolic map of the night sea journey. Each song represents a possible aspect of each stage. The album explores the journey to the "Otherworld" from the perspective of Left-Hand Path occultism (often expressed as Satanism within Western esoteric tradition). Each track corresponds to specific states or rites related to these stages. In the worldview of the Order of Nine Angles, these stages are called "nexions" and symbolize, on a transpersonal level, central nodes or "gates" that connect different levels of consciousness, reality, and astral forces. They represent stages on the path to self-transformation and spiritual evolution. Each nexion is viewed as a gateway to certain archetypes, energies, or states of consciousness meant to help the initiate unlock their dark potential and attain deeper knowledge. While the “Nachtmeerfahrten” album does not exactly mirror the O.N.A. approach, this background information certainly contributes to understanding the album's concept.
9. Are there any external influences on the music? Anything you were listening to at the time – or reading, or watching – which you feel had an effect on the writing process?
Chr.: Of course, black metal in general—and more specifically, Nordic black metal from the 1990s—is undeniably the primary source of inspiration for Waldruine’s album “Nachtmeerfahrten”: The main sources of inspiration for Nachtmeerfahrten include Mayhem’s “De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas”, Darkthrone’s “A Blaze in the Northern Sky”, and “Transilvanian Hunger”. These iconic albums are widely regarded as foundational masterpieces in the black metal genre and serve as significant role models. “De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas” is inspiration due to the gloomy atmosphere, the riffing, and the theatrical vocal performance of Attila Csihar. “A Blaze in the Northern Sky” is notable for being one of the first “typical” black metal albums, serving as a blueprint for style, sound and imagery. And “Transilvanian Hunger” provides inspiration by its flowing riffs and melodic lines, which create a somber yet fierce foundational mood. An exception is our song “Das kriechende Chaos”, which draws considerable inspiration from early Black Sabbath and Celtic Frost.
Beyond this musical influence, my engagement with the theory and practice of occultism serves as the main driving force behind my work for Waldruine. This influence is evident in the lyrics and even extends to the music itself. When composing riffs and building the musical framework of a song, I always focus on capturing the specific mood or atmosphere that I consider essential.
N.N. Libra: Besides black metal I also listen to a lot of melodic death metal. Bands like Insomnium, Wolfheart, Wintersun, Amorphis, Duskmourn, Shylmagoghnar have a big influence on me and therefore of course always on our music. I think that the mixture of our sometimes different influences has had a really good influence on our collaboration and will certainly continue to do so in the future.
10. Your lyrics reflects themes such as Occultism and Satanism. What message do you hope to convey through your artistic expression?
Chr.: Yes, since my early youth, I have always had a deep interest in spiritual themes, and the quest for knowledge about the mysteries of the cosmos has been a natural consequence of that. In the 1990s, I began to pursue these matters more seriously. I have extensively explored various spiritual traditions, particularly those central to Western esotericism, tracing their historical roots to the present day. In the process, I have developed my own views and preferences, which are rooted in the philosophy and practice of the Left-Hand Path.
However, I wouldn’t say I have a specific “message” to convey—at least not in the sense of preaching. It’s not my intention to promote any particular “ism.” That’s the realm of demagogues, not mine. Instead, my aim is to generate daimonic energy that resonates with the listener. In this sense, my approach might be somewhat akin to what Rex “Diabolus Rex” Church seeks to achieve with his Black Techno-Magick (Ragnarok Engine).
That said, I don’t expect our audience to share my interests. Many beer-drinkers and hell-raisers out there have no connection to occultism, yet if they enjoy our music regardless, that’s perfectly fine with me. On the other hand, I also don’t assume that everyone involved in occultism will appreciate our music. For instance, it’s hard to imagine academic occultists like Thomas Karlsson, Stephen Flowers, or Justin Sledge being particularly drawn to Waldruine’s music—but that’s entirely okay as well.
11. Chr., you sing and play the bass, has this always been the way? Did you start one before the other? What other instruments do you play if any.
Chr.: When I started playing in a black metal band in 1994, I began as a vocalist. However, I soon also took on the role of bassist. This dual role has remained constant, including when we formed Waldruine.
Since 2007, I’ve been running an experimental music project where I’ve worked with various acoustic instruments, such as flutes, guitar, and percussion, alongside a significant array of non-musical devices. Over time, however, this has shifted primarily toward electronic music.
12. What are some techniques you haven’t used on your current albums that you would love to experiment with in future releases?
Chr.: At the moment, we don’t have any specific techniques planned for our upcoming releases. Our focus is more on composing and playing with greater skill. Musical abilities naturally improve over time, so it’s only natural that our music may become more complex and mature as we progress.
In the future, we might consider incorporating real horns—such as trombones or other brass instruments—instead of relying on synthesized horns. However, as of now, this isn’t something we’re ready to implement.
13. Who would you say are your current favourite bands in Germany, and anywhere else, I’m always keen to discover more great music.
Chr.: One of my favourite bands from Germany is Wolfsmond from Thuringia. Although Metal Archives lists them as active, I doubt they are still making music. They released great demos in the 90s (back then, Wolfsmond was a one-man band led by Managarm) and later superb albums after expanding to a four-man band. Their musical style is very original (I’d say somewhat typically “German”), and their lyrics are haunting.
Many of the German bands I hold in high esteem are no longer active.
N.N. Libra: Not from Germany, but from the USA, for me absolutely underrated is the band Duskmourn. A friend from the USA once recommended them to me. Have a listen.
14. How do you feel the black metal scene has morphed in Germany over time? Is there anything you miss from the past, or anything you feel has changed for the better?
Chr.: I was involved in the black metal scene in the 1990s, particularly in the second half of the decade and the early 2000s. Back then, it was all about trading tapes (demo cassettes), exchanging handwritten letters with bands and fans alike, and doing or answering interviews, among other things. Additionally, I contributed to fanzines and similar projects. Discovering other bands and checking out new music always involved a bit of surprise, as you couldn’t look them up on the internet or listen to their music in advance on YouTube. The overall amount of black metal music was significantly smaller. These are some of the “technical” marginal conditions of the black metal scene that mark the difference between the old days and today.
Another important point, when reflecting on how I perceive the changes in the scene, is that many of the bands I cherished as a young man are no longer active. While some bands matured and even gained notable commercial success, others simply ceased to exist.
Regarding the social marginal conditions, it must be said that black metal was far more subversive and underground back then. It was perceived as much more threatening to “normal” society. The commercialization of black metal has brought a shift in its public perception. Today, black metal’s existence is widely known, even in mainstream society, and at times, it is largely accepted. (This is even more pronounced in Norway: nowadays, every postman or customs officer is fully aware of black metal and sometimes even takes pride in it being one of Norway’s most famous exports. A few decades ago, this would have been absolutely unthinkable.) Black metal’s self-proclaimed “evil” character has almost entirely lost its dread and charm.
To sum up: For me, the changes in Germany’s black metal scene—and the black metal scene in general—have brought the positive aspect of more well-crafted music. However, what I miss is the secretive, uncanny nature and the subversive spirit that black metal once embodied.
15. Germany had/has a lot of great BM bands, but it seems that they never were able to become very popular outside Germany. Why is this so in your opinion?
Chr.: First off, from within Germany, I am not always fully aware whether a particular band that is popular here is also popular outside of Germany. Sometimes, I am quite surprised when I find out.
I can only speculate as to why German black metal bands sometimes struggle to gain popularity abroad. One reason might be the distinctly "German" flavour in the musical style of some bands—perhaps due to subtle influences from folk and rock music—which sets them apart from the internationally dominant Scandinavian style. Another factor could be the use of the German language by some bands, which might make it harder for non-German-speaking listeners to deeply connect with the music. Additionally, the band’s country of origin might play a role; we are aware that Germany’s history in the first half of the 20th century has contributed to a negative reputation that may still linger in some contexts.
N.N. Libra: We were actually very surprised that we received so much positive feedback from a lot of different countries quite soon after the release of “Nachtmeerfahrten”. You, of course, but also from France, Israel and Ukraine, for example. As a completely unknown band, we didn't expect that. We would have been happy and grateful if anyone from Germany liked our music at all, haha. So we're really pleased that we've received so much positive feedback internationally. We really didn't expect that.
16. As a black metal band, what are your opinions about the stereotype that the “original black metal” (formed in the 90’s by the early Norwegian bands) is fading away from its true origins?
Chr.: As I mentioned before, the "original black metal" was destined to remain outside of society. "Black Metal is apocalyptic, with its calls to arms and declarations of satanic or heathen holy wars. By its nature, it should not be assimilated into the mainstream; it will always remain isolated in its hatred." - M.J. Moynihan, D. Søderlind, Lords of Chaos (1998). Originally, black metal was meant to stay underground. The commercialization of black metal has, unfortunately, ruined much of its original spirit.
While I consider this development regrettable, I also welcome the fact that, on the other hand, black metal has matured both ideologically and musically.
17. Black metal as a genre has been considered a philosophy by some, while some others consider it an avenue to express their anti-religious sentiments. What are your views on black metal as a whole?
Chr.: For me personally—and thus, for my work in Waldruine—black metal is a musical expression of my engagement with occultism. Therefore, some might say it is the musical branch of my personal devils' cult.
Black metal as we know it was established in the 1990s. During this era, black metal stood as a subversive force, epitomizing the zenith of dark musical artistry with its exploration of forbidden sciences and arts spanning past and present realms. It stood as a defiant counter-reality to the prevailing zeitgeist marked by societal degeneration. This prevailing trend encompasses the flattening of spiritual life and the increasing trivialization of human nature, evident in the emergence of a "fun society," alongside with a denial of its darker facets. Instead of conforming to these norms, in contrast to the current trend towards shallowness and in opposition to the denial of the darker aspects of humanity, black metal advocated for the restoration of the Faustian spirit, emphasizing solemnity, seriousness, and the reintegration of the devilish elements that propel humanity forward. These principles were foundational to the black metal ethos and served as the driving forces behind the black metal movement, elevating it beyond mere music to a profound cultural phenomenon. Black metal was destined to remain underground. Despite the commercialization of certain branches, an underground scene persists, faithful to its roots, providing a formidable counterbalance against prevailing norms and ideologies. Acts within this scene continued to evolve stylistically and ideologically, serving as a counter-strike against prevailing gods, norms and beliefs, whether spiritual or mundane, thereby challenging established paradigms and maintaining a steadfast isolation from mainstream assimilation. Spirituality in black metal transcended mere musical proficiency and technical precision, embodying a profound ethos.
How Waldruine fits into this, the audience shall figure out on their own. I leave it open.
18. Have you ever considered enlisting members to handle the various instruments in order to perform live, and if not, why not?
Chr.: We started Waldruine as a real band in the sense that we wanted to be able to perform live gigs when the opportunity arises. Unfortunately, we had to part ways with the original drummer, and as of now, this position remains vacant. Of course, we aim to acquire a new drummer—whether as a session player or a permanent member—and we want to play live shows. I am optimistic that this situation can be resolved.
N.N. Libra: Yes, it's a sad story that our previous drummer and we parted ways due to musical differences. But when the objectives of an album differ greatly, then sometimes, unfortunately, this is the only step left. The most important step for us now is to find a new drummer. Maybe another suitable guitarist will cross our path, but we're not actively looking for one at the moment.
19. Internet brought an overpopulation of extreme metal bands and recordings. Did this affect the quality of the scene?
Chr.: Yes, the flood of extreme metal bands and releases does indeed affect the quality of the scene. Regarding the music itself, I perceive both a devolution and an evolution: The amount of bad music is increasing (“bad” meaning amateurish, with a low creative threshold, etc.). However, the amount of sophisticated music is also on the rise. Music from today’s top acts is, at times, more complex than that of the top acts from three decades ago.
As for the scene as a sociological phenomenon, this flood of releases has led to the establishment of extreme metal as more of a mass movement, which somewhat contradicts its self-assigned “outsider” character.
Last but not least, consumption habits have changed along with the inflationary release of music products: A few decades ago, it was quite common to collect physical releases and actually know the music of all the relevant bands. Consumption habits were characterized by a high level of esteem for both the product and the band. Today, it has become normal to possess vast amounts of digital music, and consumption habits are becoming more fast-food-like.
20. Do you feel that you are a part of the local extreme scene or are you more related with bands from other countries?
Chr.: Actually, I don’t feel connected to any scene at all, at least not in the sense of belonging to a specific one. But this is not a result of any supposed snobbery; it’s simply the natural consequence of my everyday life, where I have little to no actual contact with any scene. I choose to live somewhat isolated from such things.
As for subcultures, I don’t even have a self-concept of belonging to one. In other words, I don’t label myself as belonging to any particular subculture or scene. I suppose that, based on my outward appearance, people might consider me a metalhead, or perhaps a goth, but I neither care nor agree with such assumptions.
21. It's time to conclude, perhaps you could tell us about your future projects or something?
Chr.: I expect that this coming winter we will start working on new material.
I would like to send my greetings to all our friends, supporters, and fans out there.
Thank you very much to Rotten Pages for this interview.
N.N. Libra: We are very excited to see where our musical journey will take us. We already have ideas and a rough concept for the new album. Let's see how we will implement it in our songs.
Thank you very much for the support so far and the opportunity to present us as a band and our music here. Of course we hope that our “Nachtmeerfahrten” can inspire some listeners.
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